Nice!

I just got the same thing for something over 90 days old!

It was pretty clear when I signed up that my services are delivered electronically. I can prove that the services were delivered in a timely fashion (over the Internet), but apparently that’s not good enough.

Once again, the merchant is left holding the bag. At least PayPal fights chargebacks.

Mike

If this kind of thing keeps up I’m just going to switch to Google Checkout. NO FEES at all until the end of the year, and then it’s about the same as paypal. Also they let you fight chargebacks and it doesn’t have all these problems.

Hi Brian

This happens to us all the time. We can have a confirmed order which has passed fraud review and then several weeks later we get a chargeback *reasons vary.

We are always asked to provide proof of delivery which because we provide a subscription service is impossible.

What we do have is a photo of the person who placed the order, their address details including phone number, their IP address which is trackable and even messages they have sent using that subscription. I am amazed that 2checkout do now allow an ”electronic signature” on their order as many sites including paypal do now. I mean it’s not like we would know the customers credit card info and once it’s passed fraud review then how can we know.

Even though view IP tracking etc we CAN prove it was the person who had the vard who placed the order until we have a ”proof of delivery” piece of paper that is signed for by the customer we have absolutely no comeback and that sucks.

I hate it when I see an email from Lpruitt or LFout in my inbox because I always know it’s a chargeback I am not going to win (no insult to those two ladies as they are very helpful) In this electronic age I think we Vendors should have more comeback on these so called Friendly Frauds.

Ok, I understand. I’m used to dealing with chargebacks in card present environments. So even after the order is refunded, do we have a chance to dispute it and provide proof to the best of our abilities?

We have recently received chargebacks with the reason ”unknown”. Should we understand that you don’t even need a reason now? Everybody can purchase software and services through 2co and get their money back?
At least, is there a time limit for the customers being able to do a chargeback? Or we can now sit back and wait for chargebacks on orders made three years ago?

I am selling subscriptions for use of special developed trading software. To avoid any problems my customers have 7 days free trial and furthermore each time when they use the software they accept to read and accept the term of use, where one clause reads: All sales are final, no reimbursement.
There is no fraudulent use of a CC, but after little more than a month use of the software (3 month subscription) the customer decide to cancel, and 2 CO just give him back the money, without even trying to check what is going on. Then 2 CO tells me that ’The customer has anywhere from 120- 180 days to dispute a charge’! Where does that come from, anybody knows?

Can anybody tell me please, if there is another company where this can not happen?

Thanks

I have called your office and had to leave a message, because nobody was there or was occupied when I called. I was asked to leave a message and a phone number so somebody could call me back. That is now 30 hours ago and nobody has called yet. I furthermore send your company e-mail, the first a reply to a lpruitt@2co.com which never answered back, then to your fraud devision which answered as you can see from my resent post, and now you have answered very fast which I appreciate very much, BUT the reality is that you just accept anything that a customer claim and do not give a dam about the disclaimer/term of use your customer – the vendor have put in place. As you correctly mention this is not fraud, this is a customer who have had a free trial and then use the service for more than a month, and first then decide to cancel!! You can not compare this incident with any of the cases you tell me about. I have now made a little researsh myself and found out the Regnow apparently does not behave like this, so that is maybe a better company to use as a software vendor.

As you can see I have been a customer for several years and have never before had a problem like this, and to make it even worse it looks like you charge me a fee for the callback on top of the fee you already got for the cancelled sale – is that correct or do I misunderstand that?

Cliff
I hereby upload a mail I just send to your company. That mail explain hopefully what the real problem is;

I do not really understand your mail ’To challenge this dispute we would need to prove that the customer was not due a credit. ’. What do you need from me?

Proof that my customer has used the software?
A copy of our ’Term of Use’ which every customer accept each times the use the software – otherwise they can not activate it?
What else?

Just tell me what you need to dispute this. This is not just the money, it is totally unacceptable that a customer after use of a product and after several days, weeks or whatever just can return the product and get the money back, even when he accepts that there is no refund and sales are final. It is totally damaging for any business. I have also read the forums on your site and saw that a vendor had to give back money to a customer who had used his tangible product for more than 6 month! If a customer is not satisfied then he should go to the courts, that what they are there for. And what I personally am very disappointed about is your company’s attitude in cases where fraud is not the issue, you do not even consider fighting for your customer, you just pay back even before you have heard from your vendor!

I upload a copy of this mail to your forum for everybody to see, as I think and hope that you will start thinking about changing your policy, or I at least will find another ’partner’.

Flemming

I have asked the same things several years ago. It seems 2CO still doesnt let to fight back chargebacks for services or digital products. Glad for me i dont have any chargebacks, jut had 2 in 3 years i think. But you know also why? Because i dont use 2CO for orders over 100$. I use PayPal or Western Union. 2CO is losing buig sales because of this. 2CO is fast for clients to order things, but the main reasons i dont use it for orders over 100$ is because of this. Because if i sell a 250$ service a month and after 90 days i receive a chargeback that will really hurt my business. I really want to use 2CO for big orders but the chances of chargebacks are greater since believe it or not, there are tons of cardholders that are real crucks and scammers. I provide a service which i can really proof i gave to the client. Once i asked 2CO if i could do the same big companies do. Askt the client to fax me his passport, and a waiver signed where he puts his hadwritten firm that he accepts the charge of xxx without any way to dispute it in the future. I think they replied to me but they did not assure me i would win the chargeback since its not a real product. I cannot believe that as a Vendor you have a copy of passport or proof of ID, you have the voice thatt the client left via the a voice autentication module, you have the IPs logged, you have a contract signed where he accepts the charges to his credit card, the faxes come from a real telephone number and even so 2CO will give the client the money. This is why i dont use 2CO for orders over 20$ a month. If they provide me the steps i need to do or request to my client in which i could fight a chargeback i would use 2CO. But until know they give a refund the minute a cardholder asks for it without any chance for us.

THE RISK you are running if you complain to 2 CO – THAT IS THE REALITY:

After my dispute which you can read all about above in this thread, 2 CO informed me without any warning that they stopped my account (I have been a customer for several years, and I have never had any problems before the one issue mentioned). I had to scramble to find another company which turned out to be the best thing that happened to me, as I now pay less than half in fees and have a much easier interface to work with.

I hardly believe 2CO will suspend your account for complaining. Maybe you dont want to use your account anymore. As far as what you told that is not true. Regnow is more expensive then 2CO and they only allow software selling, nothing more, so you cannot really say its better. 2CO is not perfect but its the best solution out here if you need to process international sales.

NIBB, I do not know what you are selling or what kind of ’customer’ you are, but
I have been a customer for more than four years, and have never had a problem until now, then I am being told to close my account after I started this discussion about the totally unfair treatment of @CO customers. I had a customer which after using the software for more tha a month just decided to get his money back, and even without giving me a chance to defend myself, they just accepted the Banks demand and returned the money, where I had no way of getting my software back! And on top of that 2CO suddenly ’found out’ that financial software was not supported anymore! and closed my account within a second! Have 2 CO asked all of their customer selling financial software to stop – I do not think so.
Regarding your comment about regnow, yes that is for software. I sell subscription to software all over the world, and what is wrong with Pay Pal, Kagi and other companies which support sales like that, also all over the world? I found out – in a not very pleasant way – that I have absolutely no use for 2CO. I now get it to less than half the price whit no security deposit, get my money immediately after a sale if I want to, I just have to make a free bank transfer over the Internet.